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PostPosted: 29 Jan 2019, 19:17 
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Joined: 29 Jan 2019, 18:43
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Good Evening or Morning as the case may be.

As a child this was always on my Santa list but he never obliged. Now I am back into railways I saw one of these accidentally on eBay, I did a little research and was hooked again. I have now bought one of these fine models £23.95 inc. post. I want to strip it and detail it. I am told the best reference book is 'Railway Breakdown Cranes Vol2 by Peter Tatlow' but I cant find a copy anywhere and (sorry Mr. Tatlow) but I don't want to pay £40-60 for a book and find only 2 pages relevant to my project (that does sound bad) and now the questions (surprise)

My layout is Crewe 1959 - 1964 ish. Would one of these Cowans & Sheldon's be based at Crewe or operated in the area?

If so, does it survive and where is it?

Of course photographs and drawing would help quite a bit and there are quite a few on the web, are there any very good sources to be found?


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PostPosted: 30 Jan 2019, 10:28 
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Location: Poole, Dorset
The Hornby (ex-Triang) crane model is based upon the twelve 75-ton cranes build for BR between 1960 and 1963 by Cowans, Sheldon & Co of Carlisle. These are often, albeit slightly erroneously, referred to as "Modernisation Plan" cranes since the need for them was identified around about the same time as the Modernisation Plan which removed steam from the main line was produced.

Only one of the 12 seems to have made it to Crewe. ADRC96703 (formerly RS1093/75) was at Crewe from 1978 to the mid-1980s. This crane was build as a steam-powered crane and was converted to Diesel-hydraulic operation at Derby, the conversion being completed in 1978 when it was allocated to Crewe. The crane was scrapped at (or from) Eastleigh TMD in 1996. There are several photos of this crane in the BDCA gallery, http://www.bdca.org.uk/gallery/index.ph ... 6703-Album


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PostPosted: 02 Feb 2019, 09:24 
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Roger Cooke wrote:
Only one of the 12 seems to have made it to Crewe. ADRC96703 (formerly RS1093/75) was at Crewe from 1978 to the mid-1980s. This crane was build as a steam-powered crane and was converted to Diesel-hydraulic operation at Derby, the conversion being completed in 1978 when it was allocated to Crewe. The crane was scrapped at (or from) Eastleigh TMD in 1996. There are several photos of this crane in the BDCA gallery, http://www.bdca.org.uk/gallery/index.ph ... 6703-Album


Thank you Roger. Dates don't quite match up but I think at least one may have passed through Crewe between 1959 - 64 (my get out clause), I think I can get away with that.......

My Crane has now arrived..

Image Image

Image Image

I am still looking for Peter Tatlows Vol. 2 (Just nothing about), Drawings and collecting reference pictures.

Its a slim chance but are there any steam versions still about?


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PostPosted: 02 Feb 2019, 15:57 
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Joined: 24 Dec 2010, 11:52
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Location: Queens Park, London
Four of the diesel conversions of the CS 75 tonners survive. All were converted so no steam machines extant.

ADRC96704 LMR StoD 4-8-4RB CS 82/61
ex RS1094/75 '98 to psvd. MIDLAND RAILWAY TRUST
ADRC96708 WR do do CS 84/61 redundant '97,
ex 142, R1095/75
Sold to Fragonset at Tyseley 1998., at Tyseley preservation depot 2002-6.
To Shakerstone, 20??, sold to NEMESIS RAIL BURTON ON TRENT ?8/2013; moved ca. 1/2014. In use 2016.
ADRC96707 WR do do CS 85/61
ex 141, ADB141
Psvd., ELR; in use ELR 1999; sold to RILEY ENGR. 201?. In use 2016
ADRC96709 ER do do CS 86/61
(ex DB967159) reserve '97, '98 @ THORNABY, damaged 9/98, to Carlisle for decision,
repaired, seen in use at THORNABY 9/2000 and up to mid 2007. Withdrawn 7/2007.
Sold for preservation, moved to Quorn 2/2009. Psvd. GCR. Has been in use.


Contact me on chriscapewellATgooglemail.com and I can forward various photos of the steam machines trawled from the web and suchlike.


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PostPosted: 08 Feb 2019, 09:30 
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Joined: 29 Jan 2019, 18:43
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Help I am looking for..........

Image

... I can find it anywhere, if you know where I can get a copy please let me know (shop, library, private, to buy or borrow)


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PostPosted: 08 Feb 2019, 10:01 
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Joined: 23 Dec 2010, 00:07
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Location: Poole, Dorset
Hmm, I hadn't realised just how scarce Vol 2 has become! None of my usual sources seems to have a copy at the moment, but I'll keep my eyes peeled for you.

There are plenty of copies of vols 1 and 3 around, but not vol 2.


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PostPosted: 08 Feb 2019, 17:18 
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Consider my head blown........
OK searching this morning for the book, info and pictures, I have found there is a Cowans and Sheldon crane not 1/2 a mile away. Crewe Heritage Centre has ADRC 96717 and 50 ton painted on the jib, steam converted to diesel and bright yellow, information from data files here says 45 ton.

I have been looking at the photographs and come to a radical conclusion.

If you take the Hornby R197 and want to detail it to a 75 ton crane, the end of the jib is wrong, the jib runner is wrong the cranes rotation point is wrong (the rear boiler housing hangs over the edge of the base)
Now if the Hornby R197 didn't have 75 ton on jib but had 50 ton then the jib, jib runner and rotation point would be right.

So my radical idea is that Hornby modelled (loosely) a 50 ton crane and stuck a 75 ton sticker on it.

Can people with more knowledge of these cranes have a look, could this be correct....

Image

Image


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PostPosted: 08 Feb 2019, 18:32 
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Location: Poole, Dorset
I really don't think that that much thought went into it!

Bearing in mind that it is a very old model, designed by Triang at a time when you were lucky if ready-to-run models even had the right number of wheels, I suspect the design brief was to produce a model with economical tooling that would cope with first radius curves, provide good play value to tiny hands, and bear a passing resemblance to the prototype. It was a toy rather than a model.

By the standards of the time it was not bad. By the standards of today it is generally appalling! I doubt it would have survived in production this long if it wasn't the only OO crane available.

It may continue to survive after the Bachmann crane arrives by virtue of the price differential. Who knows?

I've always felt it bore a closer resemblance to the 30 ton version than the 75, but I do agree that if you rejibbed the (Triang) Hornby crane you could make a convincing ADRC96717.

Incidentally 96717 was upgraded from 45 tons to 50 tons during the conversion from steam to diesel-hydraulic power.


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PostPosted: 09 Feb 2019, 09:39 
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Joined: 15 Dec 2010, 22:30
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Location: North Cambridgeshire, UK
Tom@Crewe wrote:
Help I am looking for..........

[Railway Breakdown Cranes Volume 2]

... I can't find it anywhere, if you know where I can get a copy please let me know (shop, library, private, to buy or borrow)

A New Zealand chap looking for a copy told me this week that he emailed the publisher who said it was on the list for a reprint but didn't have a date for it.

The discussion between Tom and Roger on the Triang model has been most interesting. Modifying to represent a more realistic representation, whether this be of a 75, 45 or 50 ton/tonne crane, seems an excellent idea.

That's a better solution than mine, which was to give to a local charity shop the Triang 75t model that a friend had kindly presented to me a couple of years earlier. (I don't run models, just have OO-gauge Britannia 'Oliver Cromwell' and Deltic '55002' on static display; no BDC at present.)


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PostPosted: 10 Feb 2019, 10:32 
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Joined: 29 Jan 2019, 18:43
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Starting my second crane rebuild Hornby R197, I intend to detail it to be a Cowans Sheldon 35 ton crane.

Still researching but making a start. also waiting for delivery of new razor saw's, I am planning to work bottom up. so rework the jib runner, relieving bogies, main chassis and how they fit together.

Image


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